A very, very packed chapter. Drama at the Plaza on Nick's birthday. A lot was happening under the surface: what was the upshot? And THEN the somewhat confusing events after they leave the Plaza! Finally, the touching scene at Tom and Daisy's. What do you make of it all?
I think this chapter really encapsulates the modernism of this book so far. Firstly, Gatsby, the material success story so far, is revealed as a criminal - even Nick despises him, and he ends up losing the girl. He seems like a child that can't keep a secret when he tells Tom Daisy never loved him. Secondly, Nick has an epiphany when he realizes Tom and Wilson are in the same situation. On page 124, he says, "... it occurred to me that there was no difference between men, in intelligence or race..." He sees what one is supposedly "inherently given" due to their class, or how much money one has, has no effect on their overall happiness. In addition, in my opinion, Jordan emerges as another strongly modernist character. Nick describes her (on page 135) as "too wise ever to carry well-forgotten dreams from age to age." She sounds and seems like someone who is thoroughly disillusioned with the world and takes modern life with a grain of salt.
ReplyDeleteI wondered why Fitzgerald chose to make this the night of Nick's birthday. Maybe it's meant to further underscore the massive changes and shifts that are occurring? I did feel like it was the only real thing that has happened to Nick in a while. I wish we had gotten to know Jordan Baker more, because she is obviously an important figure in Jim's life, but remains as little more than a presence, even in the scenes she is in. Perhaps that's only because the book is truly about Gatsby and Daisy, though, even with the surprising turn of events that seems to spell out a destruction of everything that the book has been building up to so far. I found it interesting that so far, Tom is the one who has had the earth pulled out from under his feet, and seems the most pitiable, when he has been made out to be the aggressor for so long. Perhaps he's getting his dues. On another note, I also liked Nick's little observation of the disparity between Tom and Mr Wilson's reactions to the discovery that their wives have been cheating on them.
ReplyDeleteI didn't really feel like the ending scene with Tom and Daisy was particularly touching - I found it more sinister; I thought that perhaps Tom had convinced Daisy to tell everyone that Gatsby had killed Myrtle, which is why I thought Nick's use of the word "conspiring" was very appropriate. The part of the chapter that hit me the most, funnily enough, was that Nick completely forgot that it was his birthday; perhaps it was due to being so wrapped up with Gatsby, Daisy, Tom, and Jordan, but he had just ended another decade of his life, and didn't even realize it until the most obscure moment. Finally, I was upset that Daisy didn't seem to love Gatsby anymore after the revelation of his true nature; I didn't quite understand why this would change their relationship - I thought that someone being poor would be just the same to her as someone being a criminal. However, I completely understand that she couldn't say she had never loved Tom - Gatsby was asking for a little too much.
ReplyDelete- Catherine Marris
This chapter was rather shocking. The smallest hints of a plot that had begun with Daisy and Gatsby's reunion suddenly morphed into a full fledged sensationalist drama that can only really offer three conclusions: death, confession, or guilty concealment. The book so far has been a meandering portrait of glamorous, disillusioned life in New York that appeared to be drifting off into a love story, so this immediate interjection of extraordinary events and conversations (who sits in a hotel room drinking mint juleps while their lover and their husband fight over who they loved first, and close friends look on?) is an enormous turning point, and completely not in keeping with the style of the rest of the novel. Although Fitzgerald's writing remains stunning in its intricacies, this chapter kind of ruined the book for me, since I still love the style, but the thrill factor of the passages are too much to move on from.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that surprise me is why Daisy would hit Myrtle. I would think she would want Tom to go off and have a affair with her so that She and Gatsby can get together. For some reason that does not make sense to me if Daisy really does love Gatsby.
ReplyDeleteThe beginning of the chapter for me was a little confusing, but once I got to where Tom was saying he knew who Gatsby was, that was when everything made sense. I am wondering if Daisy really was driving? The class has been informed that Daisy probably knew about Tom's lover, and perhaps the murder was intentional? Or Gatsby knew about Tom's lover and killed her... Who knows.
ReplyDeleteI think the ending accident is most interesting in the way it could affect Tom. Daisy mentions offhand why they left Chicago, insinuating that Tom had an affair with somebody there. Tom's infidelity is nothing new, but Daisy's certainly is. It confounds me that Tom should be so concerned with Daisy's loyalty but has such an obvious disregard for his own. Also, how much did Tom actually care for Mrs. Wilson? It seems at first as though she was merely there because she was on the way to New York; no one could be easier to have a relationship with. Tom has garnered quite a collection of women he loves-- how much does he care for each of them? He cries when Myrtle dies. Would he cry for Daisy more?
ReplyDeleteThe drama just keeps coming! This book is getting more and more exciting, which I'm glad about.
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand why Tom is being so critical of Daisy (her infatuation, so to speak, with Gatsby).... He had an affair with Myrtle, after all!
I'm also shocked at what happened to Myrtle; that seemed unexpected.
This doesn't really seem that important in the grand scheme of things, but I found Nick's change in attitude towards Jordan really strange. In the car ride home with Tom, Nick is comforted by her head on his shoulder because he feels lonely about getting old. But just a little while later she tries to convince him to come inside the Buchanan's house, and he says that he is sick of the whole situation, which now includes Jordan as well.
ReplyDeleteI think there's an interesting comparison to made here between Nick and Gatsby. I was pretty shocked that Gatsby still waited for Daisy outside her house even after she basically dumps him and after she runs Myrtle over. It strikes me that Gatsby is delusional and he thinks he can have it all-Daisy, wealth, popularity and a secret bootlegging operation even when all these things are pretty clearly falling apart right in front of him. Nick realizes this and is in contrast to Gatsby extremely pessimistic about everything his age, about the dreariness of the next decade etc. I'm interested to know whats to become of Gatsby and his unfailing optimism and of Nick whose just the opposite.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is full of confusion and drama. In the beginning of the chapter, Gatsby fires all of his servants to help keep the secret about Daisy. But why then are the new servants connected to Wolfshiem? Hints about Gatsby's criminal history are also reveled. Will this affect his future relationship with Daisy? Could Gatsby be using Daisy as a cover up to distract from whatever illegal things he is doing?
ReplyDeleteGatsby's strong love for Daisy is explicitly shown in this, when Gatsby explains that he will take the blame for Daisy. He sacrifices himself for Daisy in a way that she herself would not do for him. Gatsby is still holding on to his dream of being with her, even though it is slipping away more and more.
ReplyDeleteThe intention of Gatsby or Daisy killing Myrtle is unknown, because we know that Gatsby lies alot and he is trying to cover his mistake and blame it on Daisy. He probably wanted to kill Myrtle so that Tom could suffer because he knows the secret affair between them two. But, at the same time, Daisy probably knows about the same thing and since Tom is starting to figure that she loves Gatsby then she wants to revenge Tom and kill the women Tom has been having an affair with. Even Nick starts to hate Gatsby as a person now because he lies and he doesn't care about anyone else's feelings except Daisy's. At the end, it feels like Tom and Daisy talked it over and maybe decided to be lovers again.
ReplyDeleteUntil the conclusion of the chapter, the readers opinion of Gatsby continues to get worse. The way that he tries to spark a confrontation with Tom, without consulting Daisy in the slightest, seems very childish and not like him at all. Tom's reaction is predictable and unappetizing as well. However, with the death of Myrtle, Fitzgerald quickly sheds a more favorable and humane light on the characters of the two men based on the reactions to the crisis. It wasn't clear to mean the reason for doing this, except if Fitzgerald just wanted to play with the reader.
ReplyDelete-Benny
This chapter shows more about who Daisy is than anyone else. I believe that now Daisy can be seen as muniplitive. I believe that Daisy wanted Tom and Gatsby to fight all along, so that she could feel that it was over her. In this chapter she moves from side to side, but her real intentions are unknown. I see Daisy as being a lot different following this chapter.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter changed my opinion of several characters. Previously, I thought that Gatsby was sweet for trying to reunite with Daisy. But recently, he's been increasingly desperate to monopolize her love. This made me see that Gatsby is obsessed with Daisy. He was standing outside of her house, staring at the window. I do know that this is out of love, and he, unlike Tom, is more capable of tenderness, but I feel like his mental state is slowly unraveling and he's not the genial man we first saw. Tom also surprised me. Yes, he still puts himself first, and is now determined to ruin Gatsby's life with a vengeance, but his relationship with Daisy looked to be on the verge of getting stronger at the of the chapter. I still don't like Tom, but he showed vulnerability in this chapter, which shows that he has the ability to be hurt and care about others.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cody that this chapter is very telling about Daisy. They describe Daisy as being very 'money.' This fits with what Cody was saying about how Daisy wanted Tom and Gatsby to fight over her, she wants to be the center of attention. She makes it so obvious that there is something happening between her and Gatsby and almost sets up the confrontation between Tom and Gatsby. Also the fact that she wouldn't marry Gatsby when he was a poor man shows how shallow she is. Daisy seems like a rich daddy's girl who constantly wants attention and gets everything she wants. If she really did hit Myrtle on purpose then it was because she couldn't take not being Tom's focus. That's the only she likes Gatsby anyways, because he devotes himself to her. I really don't like Daisy.
ReplyDeleteSo much drama! I could take the tension between Tom and Gatsby and how Tom figured out that Gatsby had some relationship with Daisy, but then on top of that there was more! Mr. Wilson and Tom, Myrtle jealous of Jordan, Nick's birthday, the arguing in the hotel, Myrtles death... It feels never ending. It makes me wonder just how much more Fitzgerald could add to the pile.
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter there was a lot of different things going on. Once again the concept of money. Gatsby explained how daisy's voice was full of money. I actually didn't really understand what he meant by that. Another thing that happen was Tom noticed the relationship difference between his wife and gatsby. He grew angry but he neva explained to his wife how he felt.
ReplyDeleteI liked this description on page 126 of the hot and humid New York hotel where Tom and Gatsby's confrontation takes place: "...though I have a sharp physical memory that, in the course of it, my underwear kept climbing like a damp snake around my legs and intermittent beads of sweat raced cool across my back." I thought this effectively sets the the scene for the edgy argument Gatsby and Tom have, making it very entertaining.
ReplyDeleteRohan
This chapter made me change my view on Gatsby many times. As the chapter progressed I grew less and less fond of him, until he explains that he will take the blame for Daisy's car accident. To me this is the first truly caring thing that he has done for Daisy. I think that this will anger Tom, because he will see it as Gatsby still trying to make Daisy care for him. The question is will Tom ever find out that Daisy was the one driving the car, or will he instead use one of his lawyer friends to put Gatsby behind bars.
ReplyDeleteHenry Lucey
I agree with Kasra that Gatsby truly loves Daisy with all his heart; he loves her so much that he is willing to accept the hit-and-run of Myrtle by Daisy's hand. I kind of agree with what Olga is saying; that Gatsby is beginning to be obsessed with Daisy. Gatsby's obsession with Daisy is beginning to parallel Tom's strangling grip on Daisy in the previous chapter. However, I still believe that Gatsby still has a relatively healthy kind of relationship with Daisy. It's not like he is trapping her in a room (like Mr. Wilson); he is just looking out for Daisy and making sure that Tom does not physically abuse her for openly admitting that she loves Gatsby. On this note, I feel that I have to defend Mr. Wilson's actions. If I knew that my wife was cheating with another man, I don't think I would hesitate to try and stop the adultery (I would not act like Wilson and lock Myrtle in her own room, but I would definitely not just let it go...) And one last thing: I may be a little bit slow on getting the deeper meaning behind this book, but could it, by any chance, have anything to do with trust? (adultery pops up in almost every chapter, if not all)
ReplyDeleteI have really liked the complexity and drama of the book up to this point. I think Id enjoy this chapter more if I read it several more times because it was so packed it was hard to reflect on one event before watching another one. The drama at the plaza really intrigued me but the rest of the chapter lost me because it all felt too fast. I kind of got the feeling the author had some big dramatic ending like this to tie up loose ends in the novel (ex Myrtle)
ReplyDeleteI don't agree that Gatsby is becoming creepy - I think he just feels closer than he ever has to finally having Daisy and perhaps he is just getting impatient. He wasn't watching Daisy from the bushes, he was just waiting outside in case she needed his protection.
ReplyDeleteOn a separate note in reference to what Tsi Yu said, I think that trust is embedded in the more overarching theme of morality versus selfishness. In all of these relationships, the characters act capriciously and pursue what they want over what they should be doing. Myrtle and Tom should not be having an affair, but they do it anyway, and Wilson, who is perhaps too trustworthy, is severely damaged by their actions.
I absolutely love this dysfunctional family that comprise of Jordan, Nick, Tom, Gatsby, and Daisey. They are all so gleefully aware of very little, they seemingly care about nothing but themselves and their mindless drama. I think the actual subject matter that they are discussing is much less important than the way that each character reacts with one another.
ReplyDelete--Nathan
In the beginning of the book Daisy accepted Tom's affair, and shrugged it off, now that she is in "love" with Gatsby, or more so infatuated with him, she seems to be lured back to Tom. Perhaps this is part of her plan like Cody said, about being the center of attention and being noticed by the man that hasn't taken notice over her in long time. She needs to feel wanted and Gatsby, although she may "love" him, was an easy target that she used to help her get the attention she wanted from Tom.
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter, we see how Gatsby is growing more attached to Daisy as Daisy is drifting closer back towards Tom. Also, I agree with what Nathan said about the way the characters interact being more important than the subject matters. Tom could deduce that Gatsby liked Daisy by the way the two talked and exchanged glances. Also, Daisy seemed to like Tom more and more as he continued to argue with Gatsby, but the arguing itself was not what attracted Daisy.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the scene at Tom and Daisy's, especially the part when they decided to go to the city, and Daisy went in Gatsby's car. This gave the impression that they might finally be together, but then towards the end Daisy started drifting back towards Tom. This was quite frustrating for me because at the beginning of the chapter, I thought that Daisy might finally have found the strength to leave Tom and just be with Gatsby.
ReplyDelete-Sydney
I am so angry at Daisy for starting to fall back towards Tom. At this point in the story, I was beginning to like Daisy as a character; she is lively, fun, and sweet to Nick. However, she has awful impulses, and tends to have issues making decisions. Obviously, her life has changed since the car accident. Yet leaving Gatsby to face the consequences alone and drifting back to Tom makes it seem like she is not only taking the easy way out in the situation but also cheating hers and Gatsby's emotions. Daisy needs to learn to be true to herself and to face her own consequences and actions.
ReplyDelete-Elena Ridker
actually scratch that I think I was just too hard on Daisy...I guess she was just in complete shock after the accident that she needed to wait to talk to Gatsby to sort everything out. Yet I still have a feeling that she will get back together with Tom...
ReplyDelete-Elena Ridker
I dont quite udnerstand why Flitzgerald shows some parts/sides of Gatsby that makes us as readers like him as well as hate him depending on what we see. For instance, the way he shows no consideration by putting Daisy on the spot and randomly attacking Tom and discrediting the love of their marrage made us as readers dislike him. However the way he stays up all night to make sure Daisy is safe from Tom is admiring. I dont know what this is leading to
ReplyDeleteAndrew
To Andrew:
ReplyDeleteThe author is showing us these sides of Gastby because he wants the reader to love and hate him. When Flitzgerald makes us hate Gastby the reader expects Gastby to either get something coming to him, or the hope that Gatsby will become lovable again. When the author makes us love Gastby we keep reading because we want something good to happen to him or we want to see what will happen to change him.