Wednesday, April 6, 2011
Chapter 8
Is this chapter climax or denouement? Despite the action, denouement is what it feels like to me. What do you think? And what about that strange passage about how grotesque a rose is, and how raw the sunlight on the grass? I myself was moved, as I always am. The details of the plot are less important than the pathos of the tragedy. The twentieth century may be the century of nostalgia; it is also the century of tragedy. My Antonia is a wonderful exception; every other book we will read from the past hundred years, from "The Beast in the Jungle" to Song of Solomon, is clearly a tragedy. Gatsby could have avoided his fate, perhaps--but he had made his choices long ago...
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
At the end of chapter seven, I didn't really like the book anymore (plot-wise) but now I like it again, because even though I don't WANT Gatsby to be dead, especially for something he didn't do, he is the perfect martyr, and there didn't really seem to be another way for his story to end. He and Daisy couldn't have fallen back in love and gone away together, just as Tom never could have had Myrtle fully. Frequently this year, mainly with Huck Finn, we talked about how we didn't like an ending (or the events preceding one) but realized that there was no other way to complete the story. The one sudden uncharacteristic event of the book, the accident, was not a shift in the story or a turning point in its trajectory, but the breaking point of every small culminating story line in the novel. All the important players were brought together, and everyone paid dearly for their participation: Gatsby with his life, Tom with that of his lover, Daisy with a future she had already lost, Nick and Jordan with their relationship, Wilson with his wife. And with loss, their lives are able to progress with all conflicts scorched away by death.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was terribly sad. Like Tracey said, the chapter was a breaking point between all the small plot lines that previously existed: Nick breaks up with Jordan, Mr. Wilson and Myrtle's relationship resolves itself, and Daisy forgets Gatsby and, seemingly contentedly, goes back to Tom. Gatsby becomes a tragic figure, killed by love. Everyone else, though, comes off worse, including Nick, but Daisy most of all.
ReplyDeleteWhen we began this book, it seemed that it was perhaps more about character than plot, or maybe focused towards the roiling movement of the era. However, it has become clear that there is really something sensationalist and dramatic about the book, which I wasn't expecting. This apex of events was shocking, but only as a result of its sudden movement, in relation to the languid conversations and parties which overtook much of the book, in which we spent a long time getting to know the characters and the most major events were emotional ones; little was physically happening, it seems. Therefore, the rapidity and extremity of the crash and Gatsby's death was surprising, yet the actual events were not so surprising in themselves, and as Tracey said, Gatsby's death was almost a logical consequence of the accident. The one thing I found perplexing was the lack of any real emotional or deep reaction to the events from Nick, even though he was closest to Gatsby. Nick spends very little time discussing the impacts of either the event or Gatsby's death, especially the emotional aspects. For people who he spent so much time with, and seemed so fascinated by, it seems odd that he wouldn't spend a little more words on them at this point. Although perhaps that is because, as he said at the beginning of the book, he became disillusioned and wanted nothing more to do with the privileged and careless world he had been temporary inhabitant of.
ReplyDeleteI was completely shocked by this chapter. I couldn't believe Wilson killed Gatsby and himself. He had an incredible amount of anger towards his wife and his lover and he took it out in this violence. I thought it was strange that Wilson referred to himself as someone who doesnt get angery often. I also didnt understand what was meant by "the holocaust was complete" at the end of the chapter. Finally,I found myself wondering about how this will affect other characters. I think Daisy will stay with Tom, echoing her settling for Tom when they got married a long time ago.
ReplyDeleteI started off disliking this book because I thought there was no main plot in it other than just random parties and events.
ReplyDeleteAs the book progressed, I liked it more and more, because there seemed to be a main storyline: Gatsby's love for Daisy.
Now, I just feel so empty again, because Fitzgerald let Wilson kill Gatsby. I really expected a happier second-to-last chapter. I kind of wished Gatsby and Daisy would get together; I did not imagine Gatsby being shot in a pool in cold blood by a crazy and deranged man. It was just so depressing, especially since the murder took place during fall, when the leaves are dropping and the whole atmosphere is just dreary. I also found it unbelievable and lame that Wolfsheim's bodyguard who was supposed to protect Gatsby "heard the shots but hadn't thought anything much about them." When I read that sentence, I sincerely wished that the bodyguard who was so dumb and idiotic had died instead of Gatsby (I had one of those moments whereby the reader felt very passionate about something lol) And in a way, I kind of liked the way Wilson killed himself after he shot Gatsby (he deserved to die for killing a man who was willing to take the blame for a girl whom he loved but did not receive her love in return)
I was really surprised that Wilson killed Gatsby. It seemed like such a bolt move that was not very well thought out. It really hit me as an impulse thing for wilson to do but obviously something he anted to do. I don't always think because someone kills someone in your family you should kill them and in this case wilson did not even have his story right. This was a real shock to me and I feel for Gatsby.
ReplyDeleteWhile to some extent I feel that Gatsby's death was tragic, considering it came as a result of a misunderstanding by Mr. Wilson, I for the most part feel that it was appropriate and logical for Gatsby to be dead at this point in the story. Without Daisy, his life wouldn't really amount to anything. On top of this, he was almost a barrier getting in the way of all the other character's lives going on as normal. As now, Nick, Jordan, Daisy and Tom no longer have any issues to resolve. I think this might be what made Gatsby so "great" and it relates to how Nick said to Gatsby something along the lines of that he is above and better than everybody else.
ReplyDeleteI kind of feel bad for Gastby because he wasn't Myrtle's lover but he is also unlucky. He is unlucky because if he didn't switch cars with Tom, Myrtle would have never mistaken Gastby for Tom. Wilson also went overboard, I understand the anger inside him but he rushed it and he didn't get the story straight. I didn't find anything touching in this chapter, but that's just me, I thought it was all action-packed.
ReplyDeleteGatsby's obsession with becoming wealthy and rich seems to have been surpassed by his dream of being with Daisy. He would only use his wealth to buy things to prove his wealth before. I was impressed that Gatsby decided to finally use his pool, demonstrating his obsession with wealth for the sake of wealth may be receding.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter left me confused about a few things. First of all, how did Wilson know it was Gatsby's car? Did Tom tell him whose it was? And did Daisy tell Tom it was her driving, or did she let Gatsby take the fall? Also, did Daisy ever talk to Gatsby about making a decision?
ReplyDeleteI thought this chapter was pretty climactic and surprising overall, and I'm hoping that something happy will happen by the end of the book.
After reading this chapter I was left wondering what will happen in the rest of the book, because I felt that Gatsby was the catalyst behind all actions of the main characters. Without him people could just go back to their normal boring lives, which would make the book much less interesting. I will personally miss Gatsby because I found him entertaining and I don't think the book will be the same without him. My question for now is what will become of Gatsby's money, because he doesn't seem to have any family to give it to.
ReplyDeleteHenry Lucey
yes sarah. tom told wilson it was gatsby's car. its in chapter 9 xD
ReplyDelete-tsi yu
I was SO mad - I can't be mad at Wilson because he's crazy, and I can't be mad at Gatsby because he's pathetic, so now I'm mad at Daisy because she's the one who hit Myrtle and abandoned Gatsby for Tom, who's a jerk. At the same time, I thought the scene was appropriate - it felt like it was in slow motion, and I really didn't want it to happen, but it almost felt like Gatsby was fated to die. I also gained a lot more sympathy for Nick as a narrator - it's like he knows he's not supposed to like Gatsby, as he's an imposter in his society, but he can't help himself, which is why he is kind enough to tell Gatsby that he's better than all of them. Gatsby is ridiculously sentimental and romantic to Nick, but at least he believes in something, whereas Nick has no defining purpose or force in his life, and has probably never experienced love - certainly not with Jordan.
ReplyDelete- Catherine Marris
I ended the chapter looking at Daisy and Tom with disgust. Daisy doesn't really do anything positive for anyone. She was a rich young woman who wanted to be with a man, and so she married Tom and avoided Gatsby. She flit back and forth as she pleased between Tom and Gatsby and only created more "destruction." Tom is ignorant and doesn't even know what the truth was about the car crash. He cheated on his wife multiple times, and yet he was so controlling of her. The two of them only caused bad things to happen and although Gatsby wasn't a perfect person, I feel bad for him. His death makes me feel sympathetic for him and his determined mindset for all that he did during his short lifetime.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that what Wilson does to Gatsby is quite appropriate given Gatsby's depressed and lonely state of being, because Gatsby is unable to except that his dream of being with Daisy is dead. The sudden cold autumn weather hinted at the idea that the story would be wrapping up soon.
ReplyDeleteRohan
Ariel says: "While to some extent I feel that Gatsby's death was tragic, ... I for the most part feel that it was appropriate and logical."
ReplyDeleteThis is actually exactly the point of tragedy, since if it isn't appropriate and logical, then it isn't tragic. The appropriateness and logic of the death is exactly what makes it tragic!
I enjoyed all of your comments, as usual. Coco, I do think chapter 9 gives us some of the Nick-reaction you're missing, though maybe you'll disagree, and maybe we just have to be satisfied with the sympathy for Nick Catherine is able to find. I was interested that both Tracey and Ariel both make the point that the "holocaust", as Nick calls it, leaves all the other major characters with nothing holding them together, or nothing holding them back--we can imagine that their lives will continue on in their ordinary, slightly sordid way. Only Gatsby escaped the ordinary; maybe that's what made him see a rose as grotesque--because he could no longer see it as enchanted. Literature is so often about the heightened, the extraordinary (maybe that's why I like My Antonia so much, because it's not extraordinary).
I too was shocked by this chapter, particularly Gatsby's death. Although I guess I had been feeling like Gatsby;s life was over... he had spent so much time and energy into his love for Daisy, and after such a tragic event as the accident, how could they have possibly remained together? It's interesting how so much can change with just one tragic event. In addition to all of the emotional pain and intense guilt they would have faced, Gatsby might have been convicted of murder. It is incredibly frustrating to think of their future in that scenario...and Gatsby's death didn't really make the situation any better. I can't even imagine what it will be like for Daisy to hear that news.
ReplyDeleteI feel horrible for Gatsby --nothing worked out for him the way he had imagined. I was really touched by the line when Nick says that Gatsby "paid a high price for living too long with a single dream." To wait so long for his future with Daisy and then to see it crumble in front of him due to a freak accident that was out of his control is devastating. And then to be killed? Poor Gatsby.
-Elena Ridker
I agree with what almost everyone seems to have said. Yes, Gatsby's death was sad, but it was the logical solution to the problems everyone was facing. Tom and Daisy are left with no lovers to come between their marriage, Wilson ends his directionless life, and Gatsby doesn't have to deal with losing Daisy for the second time.
ReplyDeleteFor the majority of the novel I thought that the reason Nick exempt Gatsby from is hatred for people of that class (like he said on the first two pages)was because Gatsby had new money - he hadn't grown up with the same amount of privilege that the rest of them had. Maybe that's still true, and that's why Nick told Gatsby that he was better than the rest of them. But now I lean more towards the reasoning that Nick excuses Gatsby, though his behavior is just as bad as the rest of them, because he died, not because there really was anything that different about him.
I agree with Elena. He wants to believe Daisy still loves him and for the most part believes it true. But the scene as Nick gets ready to leave where he questions the love is very sad. Nick knows Daisy will never come back to Gatsby, but Gatsby still hopes and asks Nick if he thinks she will. I do also think that Gatsby's death, however tragic it was, was necessary and better for the character himself because he didnt have to live with out the thing he most desired.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was very sad. Not only did Gatsby die unfairly, but we also learned more about his relationship with Daisy and saw him struggling with the reality that he would never wind up with her. He was already in a bad place, and so getting killed the way he did just exaggerated how bad his life was, and ended it.
ReplyDelete-Sydney
CHAPTER 9:
ReplyDeleteI just remembered the line from the first chapter of the book, when Nick says, "Gatsby turned out all right at the end; it is what preyed on Gatsby, what foul dust floated in the wake of his dreams that temporarily closed out my interest in the abortive sorrows and sort-winded elations of men." That line clarifies further the sense that although Nick's story was centered around Gatsby, it is not Gatsby himself, but the people around him whose tales have the most to tell. Gatsby's interjection into all of their carefully balanced lives sends the many threads of the novel crashing down around them, changing them all irrevocably as he himself fades away. Gatsby, in all his enigmatic class, was the catalyst, though that fact doesn't become clear until the end.
In the beginning of the chapter, when we learned about Gatsby and Daisy's relationship I felt a little mixed about Daisy and Gatsby. Gatsby I think did love Daisy, however there was a lot about Gatsby being particularly interested in her wealth. It was almost like Gatsby liked Daisy’s wealth more than. It also says that he liked the idea of dating a girl who had had many other relationships. And to Daisy, it was almost as if what Daisy really every wanted was a solid and well off man. Gatsby lies to her about his economic situation and Daisy ultimately marries Tom because Gatsby isn’t present and Tom is a man who can provide for her. I don’t really understand why their relationship was played out in a slightly negative light here. - Amina
ReplyDeleteCHAPTER 9:
ReplyDeleteGatsby's terribly lonely funeral seems to underscore the possible argument that while Gatsby had become extraordinarily, opulently wealthy, he was still a poor man; wealth could not give him class, or true friendship or popularity. With his lavish parties, he was a sensation, but his death sapped him of that popularity, because it truly only came from the material things his guests used him for. Once Gatsby could give them nothing, he was nothing. To the kinds of people who populated his parties, the money made the man, but the man himself was no more than the money he had. Not that Gatsby was, in reality, looking for friends. His parties, as well as his entire existence, were, for five years, consumed with the gleaming vision of a perfect Daisy, and his efforts at attaining her displaced any other emotional connections. However, he belongs to a wholly different world, not because of wealth directly (because he does become obscenely wealthy), but because of the way an initial lack of wealth shaped the environment, privileges, understandings, and obligations of the world he grew up in. And, encased in this separate bubble from the existence of the carelessly, effortlessly rich, unable to attain his one true dream, the source of all his actions, what is there left for Gatsby to live for?
I agree with what Tracey said in the first comment - Gatsby is the perfect martyr in this scene. I thought that Fitzgerald painted an exquisitely poignant picture of Gatsby lying dead among such vibrant grass, water, sunlight, etc. - but each thing was somehow "raw" or "grotesque." In contrast, I also loved the picture Fitzgerald gave us of Dr. Eckelberg's eyes - rather than a beauty gone wrong, they seem more like an eerie wonder floating out of the garbage of the world.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Sydney. Not being able to end up with the one you love is sad (tragic, even) enough. But dying is so much worse (depending on how you look at it, but Gatsby dying made me feel worse than him not being able to be with Daisy).
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering about the title now- why is it called The GREAT Gatsby if he gets killed?
I like the transition from summer to autumn that Fitzgerald shows to the reader. One mention was when the pool cleaner said that leaves would be falling soon. The other time was when Gatsbys dead body was floating in the pool and a cluster of leaves touched his body. I saw this as Gatsbys death was what marked the beginning of the new season.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it could be called the Great Gatsby because he has the image of a martyr in the readers and Nicks eyes thus making him Great.
I feel bad for Gatsby. I almost feel as though Gatsby wanted to die once he realized that Daisy did not truly love him anymore. He knew that Tom was out to get his after what Tom thought he did to Myrtle. However, he just relaxes in his pool and accepts his fate when Wilson kills him. I felt bad for Gatsby because he dies a lonely, sad death.
ReplyDeleteThe plot was finally building and I was excited to see who Daisy would choose- Tom or Gatsby. It will be interesting to see what happens now that Gatsby is dead. I am confused as to why Gatsby accepts his fate and doesn't make any attempt to save himself because he probably knew that was coming.
ReplyDeleteOnce Gatsby failed at wooing Daisy, which was obvious at the end of chapter 7, although he didn't seem to know it, it was clear that failing to realize his dream would be his demise. His final attempt at Daisy, not sharing that she was the one to strike Myrtle, eventually led to his death. Gatsby's run was through. He had spent five years of his life working on attaining Daisy, and, so, him failing this burst his bubble. Everything began to fall apart about him. Nick describes the dust in his house, which used to always be so clean and perfect. The gardner says that the pool might become clogged, which used to be so picture perfect. It only made sense for then Gatsby himself to fall apart.
ReplyDeleteIt was kind of weird to me how wilson killed gatsby. How did he know like someone else asked that it was gatsby driving the car. I understand that he was hurt and in pain from mrtyle dying but why kill urself. I did'nt feel bad that gatsby was killed. I felt as if gatsby deserved his death
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was very sad but very predictable as well. When Flitzgerald added in how Nick offered Gatsby to maybe leave the place for awhile for his safety but didnt, I knew right away something bad was going to happen to Gatsby. It was also a suspicion from the title of the book "The Great Gatsby" in which the adjective "great" describing him makes it seem like he is someone who died/had a tradegy of some sort.
ReplyDeleteAndrew C
I see this chapter as the climax of the novel that finally explains the foreshadowing from chapter one. It talks about how Gatsby was a good guy, and how certain events led to his death. However, I did not think of this until after finishing the book.
ReplyDelete-Benny
I feel as though this chapter was seen when we first got to know about Gastby. It was like we were talking in class how it was expected for Gastby to die because it just fits in with his character.
ReplyDelete