Welcome to our blog. Comment on chapters as you read them. Gatsby is commonly considered the greatest American novel of the past hundred years or so; you can read it romantically or religiously, you can read it a la Freud or a la Marx, you can read it with an eye to race and eugenics or with an eye to suburbs and car culture, you can read it as being about class, about technology, about love (straight or gay, of course), and about dreams. Gatsby is the great novel of nearly everything--but especially of youth. It is ironic, it is heartfelt, it is simple and sophisticated at once, and almost everyone likes it. It is also an extraordinarily virtuosic prose performance. The book is written at a pitch of non-stop brilliance that has never been equaled. Enjoy.
Thursday, April 7, 2011
Chapter 9
What do we take away? Does this last chapter change our sense of the tragedy, or simply add depth and nuance? Which parts did you like in particular?
I just remembered the line from the first chapter of the book, when Nick says, "Gatsby turned out all right at the end; it is what preyed on Gatsby, what foul dust floated in the wake of his dreams that temporarily closed out my interest in the abortive sorrows and sort-winded elations of men." That line clarifies further the sense that although Nick's story was centered around Gatsby, it is not Gatsby himself, but the people around him whose tales have the most to tell. Gatsby's interjection into all of their carefully balanced lives sends the many threads of the novel crashing down around them, changing them all irrevocably as he himself fades away. Gatsby, in all his enigmatic class, was the catalyst, though that fact doesn't become clear until the end. April 7, 2011 3:38 PM
Coco said...
Gatsby's terribly lonely funeral seems to underscore the possible argument that while Gatsby had become extraordinarily, opulently wealthy, he was still a poor man; wealth could not give him class, or true friendship or popularity. With his lavish parties, he was a sensation, but his death sapped him of that popularity, because it truly only came from the material things his guests used him for. Once Gatsby could give them nothing, he was nothing. To the kinds of people who populated his parties, the money made the man, but the man himself was no more than the money he had. Not that Gatsby was, in reality, looking for friends. His parties, as well as his entire existence, were, for five years, consumed with the gleaming vision of a perfect Daisy, and his efforts at attaining her displaced any other emotional connections. However, he belongs to a wholly different world, not because of wealth directly (because he does become obscenely wealthy), but because of the way an initial lack of wealth shaped the environment, privileges, understandings, and obligations of the world he grew up in. And, encased in this separate bubble from the existence of the carelessly, effortlessly rich, unable to attain his one true dream, the source of all his actions, what is there left for Gatsby to live for? April 7, 2011 4:07 PM
I agree completely with what Coco said; she did a wonderful job of articulating my thoughts! I felt really upset at those people who just used Gatsby and discarded him when they were done. From past experience, I know that some people just get what they want out of you, then pretend that they never knew you. Perhaps they really never knew you at all... So I felt really sad when Gatsby's funeral was so lonely. If anyone ever thought about their funeral, they would never imagine a lack of visitors saying their final goodbyes, so I felt really sad for Gatsby: the man who was lonely to the very end. I hate Daisy and Tom for being such irresponsible and heartless wretches. They just ditched Gatsby, left town, and never attended Gatsby's funeral. Come on! He sacrificed his life for her, and what did he get in return? Not even a word of thanks! Wow. Really? "Look here, old sport, you've got to get somebody for me. You've got to try hard. I can't go through this alone." This sentence was enough to move someone to tears. It's just so sad and depressing. I completely understand Wolfsheim's attitude towards the funeral; he did not want to see his dead friend out of sentimental reasons. I can respect that. But that dude who called up to ask for his tennis shoes? That person was a jerk. For reals. I can both hate and sympathize with Tom when he revealed the Wilson that the car belonged to Gatsby. He feared for his life, and I can sympathize with that. But I also hate him for actually wanting Wilson to find Gatsby. That is just so scewed up. The book ended with a messy Gatsby's Mansion, and the flashback to the past when the island was not urbanized, but was a giant forested land in the middle of the ocean. I found the last line of the book extremely interesting, since it refers to the past, which is an integral theme to this book (Gatsby and Daisy's love in the past/Gatsby's yearning to repeat the past/Gatsby's disillusionment and resignation when he realized the past cannot be repeated/yadda yadda yadda)
I was slightly confused by what seemed to be Nick's sudden change of heart; I felt the exact same way he did about Gatsby in the final chapter, but I didn't really see where his feeling of solidarity with Gatsby came from, as opposed to his scornful attitude in the previous chapters. Maybe it's because that Nick, although of an upper-class, is also somewhat an outsider; he has to work for his money, unlike Tom. It's also possible that all that has happened with Daisy and Tom and his intimacy with Gatsby has gradually changed his feelings.
I also thought the last chapter was the most beautiful of the whole novel; it was incredibly painful that Gatsby's funeral would be so pathetic, and his father, previously so proud of his son, finally discovered the truth about Gatsby's empty life. The idea articulated in the final few paragraphs, that we are all somehow trying to go back to the elements of our past while convincing ourselves that they are the goals of our future, was incredibly depressing and strangely beautiful; it's as if time actually has no quantity, no value, as every single present and future moment becomes a past moment.
I was satisfied with the encounter Nick had with Tom; it gave extra depth to Nick's character that he was able to forgive Tom when he realized that he had the mind and feelings of a child. However, I was disappointed that there was no final scene with Daisy; I'm at the angry stage right now where I consider everything to be her fault, so I wanted someone to tell her how awful she had been. It was strange to me that the parting between Jordan and Nick was made out to be such a sad event in Nick's lfie; I never thought he was that much in love with her - he was far more obsessed with Gatsby.
The argument of east vs. west was also a very general stereotype, and I was confused for a while about what Nick was trying to say; he articulates that Tom, Daisy, and all the other main characters fail in the east because they are westerners, yet Tom and Daisy represent the essence of the eastern upper-class. However, Fitzgerald's description of the different, small scenes of life in the west as opposed to the east gave me a perfect picture of what sides of life he was trying to contrast.
For me, the most moving part of the chapter was Nick's desperation to find someone who cared for Gatsby: "I wanted to get somebody for him. I wanted to go into the room where he lay and reassure him: 'I'll get somebody for you Gatsby. Don't worry. Just trust me and I'll get somebody for you - '"
Thoughtful comments so far--thank you. Yes to all of them. I was particularly interested in Catherine's last thought, that the most moving part was Nick's desperation to find someone who cared for Gatsby. That's what he's done by writing his book, in a way: he has enlisted all of us as mourners. It also makes me think that in some ways the book belongs as much to Nick as to Gatsby, since the story is not just the story of Gatsby's downfall but also, equally if not more, the story of Nick's developing consciousness. Twentieth century literature is famously as much about the telling as about the tale, and that's true here.
Anyway, I too find the last chapter the most beautiful, and the famous last page especially so.
This chapter really illuminated the class differences that have been apparent throughout the entire book for me. Tom and Daisy and so superior, at least in their eyes, to everyone else. Tom feels as though he can have Gatsby killed if he pleases. Daisy doesn't feel as though she needs to share that she in fact killed Myrtle, because she's above that. And then there's Gatsby. He's not of the old money class that sets Daisy and Tom so high. Rather, he's petty new money. Gatsby shows me how becoming new money isn't worth it. On his way to the top Gatsby gained no friends, just hurt himself time and again. This is glaringly obvious, and very sad, when at the end no one comes to his funeral because they only cared about his money rather than Gatsby himself. This shows me how moving up is in now way worth it. Gatsby would never actually reach the comfortable, old money class that he was searching for. He was doomed to be 'poor' forever. Only Tom and Daisy are able to enjoy the benefits of wealth without the constant interruptions of reality that were constantly calling Gatsby. Nick said it himself in the final sentence, as much as Gatsby was moving forward and making progress, he wasn't at all, life just wouldn't allow it. This taught me something about my own reality. As free as I am, I am for the most part stuck in the role in society that I already fill. Movie is possible, but wouldn't actually bring me anywhere. I think I learned this because The Great Gatsby is so current even though it is so old. The old money people who feel so superior are still around today. As are the new money folk, who want to be just like the old money people. I think that this is why The Great Gatsby is still such a famous book, it is still very relevant to modern society.
In response to both Tsi Yu and Catherine, I think that Nick's change of heart regarding Gatsby stemmed from Gatsby's funeral. Nick prides himself on his honesty, and I think this applies to his friendships as well. Thus, I think Nick was appalled that none of Gatsby's "friends" even bothered to come to the funeral, and that made Nick look upon the deceased man with a better light. I also think that, through his encounters with very different classes than he was typically used to, Nick understood a little bit more of where Gatsby was coming from. In my opinion, the saddest part of the book was reading about Gatsby's book and schedule. That scene made me feel that Gatsby really was a good, kind, interesting person, and it made me mourn Gatsby's death all the more.
After reading the last chapter I actually thought that Fitzgerald wrote the final 30 pages just to make the reader feel sorry for Gatsby. Nick constantly reminds us that Gatsby had no real friends, besides himself, and he pushes us to feel sympathy for Gatsby.
Another thing that I found interesting was the whole east vs. west thing that Nick touched upon in the last chapter. This made me think of the West egg vs. East egg relationship as well. For it seems fitting that Tom and Daisy live on the east egg, they seem to represent the traditional aristocratic people who lived in the North East during this time period. While Nick, and especially Gatsby, seem more like westerns. I some how associate the American Dream with the free open west and in my mind Gatsby truly fulfills the American Dream, so it seems right that he lives on the West egg. Henry Lucey
Fitzgerald illustrates the pointlessness of being "new money" and trying to fit in with Eastern lifestyle in this chapter more than any other. In earlier chapters, the clear superiority of old money is highlighted as everything always seems to work out for Daisy and Tom, but this chapter really shows that no matter how rich Gatsby became, he never could become rich in the sense that the Buchanans were - no one wanted to attend his funeral, nor did they care about his life more than a pair of tennis shoes. There was something that really touched me about the fact that Mr. Gatz calls Gatsby "Jimmy," a much more down-to-earth name than the elitist "Jay" that he chooses for himself. To me, this really showed that Gatsby didn't belong in the East, where people just took advantage of his material assets, but rather in the West, the place from which the only two attendees of his funeral were from.
I was really interested in Tracy's comment. I think its true that Gatsby is defined by what those around him think of him. If that's true, he comes across as a tragic character in the last chapter. Few people wanted to come to his funeral and all his 'friends' seemed incredible shallow. It brings to light how alone he was and Daisy was not involved after his death at all. Nick, who knew his for a shorter amount of time, was much more involved than anyone else. I liked that Nick stood up for Gatsby when his friends were so disrespectful after his death. I thought that gave some dignity to Gatsby's character that he hadn't been able to achieve when he was alive.
I found it really interesting how Nick said that the story was about the west in a way. I'm interested by this because it is like many things in the world. When people move from one place to another where they had been for a long time they either adapt to their new place or do what ever they can to make that new place like that of the old. In this case the characters in this story seem to have done that, and nick explains it perfectly.
I agree with one of Catherine's comments, that this chapter was extremely painful to read. It still surprises me that Gatsby went from this mysteriously wealthy man that (it seemed like) Nick looked up to, to someone who had no friends and died because he was still in love with a woman who had moved on long ago. The description of Gatsby's father was also really touching. He had obviously been left behind while Gatsby persued Daisy, and was in complete awe of his son's success, but for all the wrong reasons. It seemed like he had to prove something to Nick in the end, but Nick didn't really want to hear it. In the end, I was glad that Nick had some closure and had learned from Gatsby's tragic life. The end of the story also emphasized the fact the Gatsby's life had already ended the moment they left the hotel that fateful night, when Daisy chose Tom.
I agree with what Nick says, that the story is about the West. Although taking place in the East, the story does seems made from Western components and, at the end, returns to its original form. Tom and Daisy are back in Chicago, together; Gatsby is out of the picture; Jordan Baker goes back to being a golf star, her relationship with Carraway over; and Myrtle and Mr. Wilson, never "important" (in the classist sense of the word), truly cease to be so. This chapter seems to act as more of an epilogue, just the way the first chapter acted as an introduction, because it tracks the lives of the characters after the featured action that made up the body of the plot.
The last few pages are like the first pages, being pretty vague and hard to understand of what it is trying to say. I like the way this book is like how it starts and how it ends the same way. It was kind of surprising that Nick broke up with Jordan and how suddenly that Jordan just gets engaged to another guy. It also makes sense for Nick to go back to the Midwest because all his friends are basically gone and they are not in touch with him anymore.
The way Nick compares Gatsby himself to the U.S. impressed me. Throughout the story, Gatsby chased his unreachable dream of being with Daisy and returning to the past, just like the American dream and the pursuit of happiness. Gatsby's fate serves as a reminder that one's past defines that person and is unchangeable.
I agree with Catherine and Ayesha. Nick, Tom, Daisy, and Jordan all come from respectable Western families, raised with opportunities at their door. They went East and suffered for their experiences, but they all moved on in the end because they still had their lives. Gatsby, also from the West, pulled himself into the "new money" position, and all it got him was death. What they all have in common is that the East mutated them so that they were unlike the people they were meant to be in the West, and it left them worse off, and the only thing that could save them from the East was their class. For Gatsby then, the class he was born to wasn't high enough to keep him alive.
I wonder if the acceptance of Tom when Nick shakes his hands at the end of the chapter sort of signifies whether Flitzgerald is saying that one should forgive the other or something on the lines of that. I am also curious to wonder what the word that Nick scratched out at Gatsby house means. In the Scarlett Letter I think we could sort of figure out whats going on there but in this situation I dont think there is any definately answer or even definate meaning?
My feelings towards Gatsby's death changed after reading the last chapter. In Chapter 8, I felt like Gatsby in some ways deserved death and brought it upon himself because of his materialism, obsession with Daisy, etc. However, after reading Chapter 9, I felt sympathetic for him when no one besides Nick and Gatsby's dad attend his funeral. His friends were never true friends. They were only interested in his wealth.
I thought the ending was so sad, especially how almost no one showed up at Gatsby's funeral. I also was a bit surprised by how Nick ended his relationship with Jordan.
Even though Gatsby had a 'shady' past with all those stories and such, I can't help but feel bad for him and how it doesn't seem that anyone (except a few people) missed him after he died.
I thought that the author reveiled a lot more about Nick's input on the whole situation with the final chapter. I believe that it added to the tragedy taking place when Nick talks to Tom. Nick's thoughts about Tom and Gatsby become very clear. He sees Tom as selphish. I believe now that Nick felt sorry for Gatsby and upset with Tom and Daisy.
For me, the last chapter really made me pity Gatsby and it made me upset. The fact that practically no one showed up to his funeral was very sad, and made me feel sorry for Gatsby and think that he deserved better. I was also upset that Daisy wound up with Tom in the end, because although she was never going to wind up with Gatsby, I thought that she would at least leave Tom, who, in my mind, was a horrible wretched character. I also found it interesting how the west v. east theme came up in this chapter. I had never really thought about how the east had changed the characters lives for the worse before this chapter, but now I think that the east was the reason that the book was a tragic tale instead of a romantic novel (between Daisy and Gatsby).
Though Gatsby's death and funeral were quite painful, sad, and lonely events, I still feel like Gatsby's death was overall liberating for Nick, making Gatsby even more of a tragic hero. Nick, an honest, friendly, and hard-working individual had managed to get caught up in the lives and relationships of others --Tom, Daisy, Gatsby and Jordan, where his own needs and interests were generally ignored. Throughout the time he spent with this group, he often had feelings of frustration or even distaste with their obsessions with money and their exclusive lifestyles. Yet Nick was never able to admit to himself that he was not interested in spending his life with this group until after Gatsby's death, when he was able to conclude how self-centered and insensitive Tom and Daisy are. Gatsby's death allowed Nick to plan to move back to the midwest, where he knows he will be much happier. Finally, Nick knows that he can leave because Gatsby no longer needs him; after the car accident and losing Daisy to Tom, Gatsby had nothing else left to live for. If he had not been killed, I feel like he would have relied on Nick for emotional support and for friendship. However, with Gatsby out of the picture, Nick is free to live his own life without worrying about focusing all of his energy on friends and neighbors, especially those he is not too fond of. The fact that Gatsby's death led to a more positive future perhaps supports the idea that Gatsby is a tragic hero. His own death ended up being somewhat beneficial for Nick. Nevertheless, I still feel incredibly bad for Gatsby, especially while reading about his funeral. I felt so angry at every single person who had rejected the invitation to the funeral. Poor Gatsby...
I don't like how Nick thinks he is so much better than Daisy and Tom. Sure they're much wealthier but if we weren't told that Nick was from the West and Tom and Daisy were from the East than I don't think we would ever pick up on the East-West divide. Even Gatsby's outsiderness only really came about after we learned of his desperate love of Daisy and his lonely funeral. Overall, I think many of the central themes talked about in this book are actually quite subtle and I wonder what that means.
The way Nick feels about Gatsby in the end of the book I thought was very different to the way he felt about him at the start of the book. The way he described Gatsby in the start made it seem like Nick didn't like Gatsby but they became close friends in the end...Why this difference? -Amina
I thought the end of the novel paralleled the first two pages of the book in terms of language and Nick's attitude. It was a logical conclusion and allowed Fitzgerald to wrap up the book.
I believed this kind of summarizes the whole book, Gastby died, Wilson died, Tom moved on, now it ends with Nick moving on, it was really that last sentence in the book that summarizes everything together talking about the past.
I felt satisfied with the ending. Although it almost randomly started talking about the West and the East, it tied everyone together. I was left being mad at Daisy and Tom, but sympathetic for Gatsby. However, I wouldn't have felt as sorry if he hadn't died. The fact that almost nobody went to his funeral made me feel even more pity.
Tracey Faber said...
ReplyDeleteI just remembered the line from the first chapter of the book, when Nick says, "Gatsby turned out all right at the end; it is what preyed on Gatsby, what foul dust floated in the wake of his dreams that temporarily closed out my interest in the abortive sorrows and sort-winded elations of men." That line clarifies further the sense that although Nick's story was centered around Gatsby, it is not Gatsby himself, but the people around him whose tales have the most to tell. Gatsby's interjection into all of their carefully balanced lives sends the many threads of the novel crashing down around them, changing them all irrevocably as he himself fades away. Gatsby, in all his enigmatic class, was the catalyst, though that fact doesn't become clear until the end.
April 7, 2011 3:38 PM
Coco said...
Gatsby's terribly lonely funeral seems to underscore the possible argument that while Gatsby had become extraordinarily, opulently wealthy, he was still a poor man; wealth could not give him class, or true friendship or popularity. With his lavish parties, he was a sensation, but his death sapped him of that popularity, because it truly only came from the material things his guests used him for. Once Gatsby could give them nothing, he was nothing. To the kinds of people who populated his parties, the money made the man, but the man himself was no more than the money he had. Not that Gatsby was, in reality, looking for friends. His parties, as well as his entire existence, were, for five years, consumed with the gleaming vision of a perfect Daisy, and his efforts at attaining her displaced any other emotional connections. However, he belongs to a wholly different world, not because of wealth directly (because he does become obscenely wealthy), but because of the way an initial lack of wealth shaped the environment, privileges, understandings, and obligations of the world he grew up in. And, encased in this separate bubble from the existence of the carelessly, effortlessly rich, unable to attain his one true dream, the source of all his actions, what is there left for Gatsby to live for?
April 7, 2011 4:07 PM
I agree completely with what Coco said; she did a wonderful job of articulating my thoughts!
ReplyDeleteI felt really upset at those people who just used Gatsby and discarded him when they were done. From past experience, I know that some people just get what they want out of you, then pretend that they never knew you. Perhaps they really never knew you at all... So I felt really sad when Gatsby's funeral was so lonely. If anyone ever thought about their funeral, they would never imagine a lack of visitors saying their final goodbyes, so I felt really sad for Gatsby: the man who was lonely to the very end.
I hate Daisy and Tom for being such irresponsible and heartless wretches. They just ditched Gatsby, left town, and never attended Gatsby's funeral. Come on! He sacrificed his life for her, and what did he get in return? Not even a word of thanks! Wow. Really?
"Look here, old sport, you've got to get somebody for me. You've got to try hard. I can't go through this alone." This sentence was enough to move someone to tears. It's just so sad and depressing.
I completely understand Wolfsheim's attitude towards the funeral; he did not want to see his dead friend out of sentimental reasons. I can respect that. But that dude who called up to ask for his tennis shoes? That person was a jerk. For reals.
I can both hate and sympathize with Tom when he revealed the Wilson that the car belonged to Gatsby. He feared for his life, and I can sympathize with that. But I also hate him for actually wanting Wilson to find Gatsby. That is just so scewed up.
The book ended with a messy Gatsby's Mansion, and the flashback to the past when the island was not urbanized, but was a giant forested land in the middle of the ocean.
I found the last line of the book extremely interesting, since it refers to the past, which is an integral theme to this book (Gatsby and Daisy's love in the past/Gatsby's yearning to repeat the past/Gatsby's disillusionment and resignation when he realized the past cannot be repeated/yadda yadda yadda)
I was slightly confused by what seemed to be Nick's sudden change of heart; I felt the exact same way he did about Gatsby in the final chapter, but I didn't really see where his feeling of solidarity with Gatsby came from, as opposed to his scornful attitude in the previous chapters. Maybe it's because that Nick, although of an upper-class, is also somewhat an outsider; he has to work for his money, unlike Tom. It's also possible that all that has happened with Daisy and Tom and his intimacy with Gatsby has gradually changed his feelings.
ReplyDeleteI also thought the last chapter was the most beautiful of the whole novel; it was incredibly painful that Gatsby's funeral would be so pathetic, and his father, previously so proud of his son, finally discovered the truth about Gatsby's empty life. The idea articulated in the final few paragraphs, that we are all somehow trying to go back to the elements of our past while convincing ourselves that they are the goals of our future, was incredibly depressing and strangely beautiful; it's as if time actually has no quantity, no value, as every single present and future moment becomes a past moment.
I was satisfied with the encounter Nick had with Tom; it gave extra depth to Nick's character that he was able to forgive Tom when he realized that he had the mind and feelings of a child. However, I was disappointed that there was no final scene with Daisy; I'm at the angry stage right now where I consider everything to be her fault, so I wanted someone to tell her how awful she had been. It was strange to me that the parting between Jordan and Nick was made out to be such a sad event in Nick's lfie; I never thought he was that much in love with her - he was far more obsessed with Gatsby.
The argument of east vs. west was also a very general stereotype, and I was confused for a while about what Nick was trying to say; he articulates that Tom, Daisy, and all the other main characters fail in the east because they are westerners, yet Tom and Daisy represent the essence of the eastern upper-class. However, Fitzgerald's description of the different, small scenes of life in the west as opposed to the east gave me a perfect picture of what sides of life he was trying to contrast.
For me, the most moving part of the chapter was Nick's desperation to find someone who cared for Gatsby: "I wanted to get somebody for him. I wanted to go into the room where he lay and reassure him: 'I'll get somebody for you Gatsby. Don't worry. Just trust me and I'll get somebody for you - '"
- Catherine Marris
Thoughtful comments so far--thank you. Yes to all of them. I was particularly interested in Catherine's last thought, that the most moving part was Nick's desperation to find someone who cared for Gatsby. That's what he's done by writing his book, in a way: he has enlisted all of us as mourners. It also makes me think that in some ways the book belongs as much to Nick as to Gatsby, since the story is not just the story of Gatsby's downfall but also, equally if not more, the story of Nick's developing consciousness. Twentieth century literature is famously as much about the telling as about the tale, and that's true here.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I too find the last chapter the most beautiful, and the famous last page especially so.
This chapter really illuminated the class differences that have been apparent throughout the entire book for me. Tom and Daisy and so superior, at least in their eyes, to everyone else. Tom feels as though he can have Gatsby killed if he pleases. Daisy doesn't feel as though she needs to share that she in fact killed Myrtle, because she's above that. And then there's Gatsby. He's not of the old money class that sets Daisy and Tom so high. Rather, he's petty new money. Gatsby shows me how becoming new money isn't worth it. On his way to the top Gatsby gained no friends, just hurt himself time and again. This is glaringly obvious, and very sad, when at the end no one comes to his funeral because they only cared about his money rather than Gatsby himself. This shows me how moving up is in now way worth it. Gatsby would never actually reach the comfortable, old money class that he was searching for. He was doomed to be 'poor' forever. Only Tom and Daisy are able to enjoy the benefits of wealth without the constant interruptions of reality that were constantly calling Gatsby. Nick said it himself in the final sentence, as much as Gatsby was moving forward and making progress, he wasn't at all, life just wouldn't allow it. This taught me something about my own reality. As free as I am, I am for the most part stuck in the role in society that I already fill. Movie is possible, but wouldn't actually bring me anywhere. I think I learned this because The Great Gatsby is so current even though it is so old. The old money people who feel so superior are still around today. As are the new money folk, who want to be just like the old money people. I think that this is why The Great Gatsby is still such a famous book, it is still very relevant to modern society.
ReplyDeleteIn response to both Tsi Yu and Catherine, I think that Nick's change of heart regarding Gatsby stemmed from Gatsby's funeral. Nick prides himself on his honesty, and I think this applies to his friendships as well. Thus, I think Nick was appalled that none of Gatsby's "friends" even bothered to come to the funeral, and that made Nick look upon the deceased man with a better light. I also think that, through his encounters with very different classes than he was typically used to, Nick understood a little bit more of where Gatsby was coming from.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the saddest part of the book was reading about Gatsby's book and schedule. That scene made me feel that Gatsby really was a good, kind, interesting person, and it made me mourn Gatsby's death all the more.
After reading the last chapter I actually thought that Fitzgerald wrote the final 30 pages just to make the reader feel sorry for Gatsby. Nick constantly reminds us that Gatsby had no real friends, besides himself, and he pushes us to feel sympathy for Gatsby.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that I found interesting was the whole east vs. west thing that Nick touched upon in the last chapter. This made me think of the West egg vs. East egg relationship as well. For it seems fitting that Tom and Daisy live on the east egg, they seem to represent the traditional aristocratic people who lived in the North East during this time period. While Nick, and especially Gatsby, seem more like westerns. I some how associate the American Dream with the free open west and in my mind Gatsby truly fulfills the American Dream, so it seems right that he lives on the West egg.
Henry Lucey
Fitzgerald illustrates the pointlessness of being "new money" and trying to fit in with Eastern lifestyle in this chapter more than any other. In earlier chapters, the clear superiority of old money is highlighted as everything always seems to work out for Daisy and Tom, but this chapter really shows that no matter how rich Gatsby became, he never could become rich in the sense that the Buchanans were - no one wanted to attend his funeral, nor did they care about his life more than a pair of tennis shoes.
ReplyDeleteThere was something that really touched me about the fact that Mr. Gatz calls Gatsby "Jimmy," a much more down-to-earth name than the elitist "Jay" that he chooses for himself. To me, this really showed that Gatsby didn't belong in the East, where people just took advantage of his material assets, but rather in the West, the place from which the only two attendees of his funeral were from.
I was really interested in Tracy's comment. I think its true that Gatsby is defined by what those around him think of him. If that's true, he comes across as a tragic character in the last chapter. Few people wanted to come to his funeral and all his 'friends' seemed incredible shallow. It brings to light how alone he was and Daisy was not involved after his death at all. Nick, who knew his for a shorter amount of time, was much more involved than anyone else. I liked that Nick stood up for Gatsby when his friends were so disrespectful after his death. I thought that gave some dignity to Gatsby's character that he hadn't been able to achieve when he was alive.
ReplyDeleteI found it really interesting how Nick said that the story was about the west in a way. I'm interested by this because it is like many things in the world. When people move from one place to another where they had been for a long time they either adapt to their new place or do what ever they can to make that new place like that of the old. In this case the characters in this story seem to have done that, and nick explains it perfectly.
ReplyDeleteI agree with one of Catherine's comments, that this chapter was extremely painful to read. It still surprises me that Gatsby went from this mysteriously wealthy man that (it seemed like) Nick looked up to, to someone who had no friends and died because he was still in love with a woman who had moved on long ago. The description of Gatsby's father was also really touching. He had obviously been left behind while Gatsby persued Daisy, and was in complete awe of his son's success, but for all the wrong reasons. It seemed like he had to prove something to Nick in the end, but Nick didn't really want to hear it.
ReplyDeleteIn the end, I was glad that Nick had some closure and had learned from Gatsby's tragic life. The end of the story also emphasized the fact the Gatsby's life had already ended the moment they left the hotel that fateful night, when Daisy chose Tom.
I agree with what Nick says, that the story is about the West. Although taking place in the East, the story does seems made from Western components and, at the end, returns to its original form. Tom and Daisy are back in Chicago, together; Gatsby is out of the picture; Jordan Baker goes back to being a golf star, her relationship with Carraway over; and Myrtle and Mr. Wilson, never "important" (in the classist sense of the word), truly cease to be so.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter seems to act as more of an epilogue, just the way the first chapter acted as an introduction, because it tracks the lives of the characters after the featured action that made up the body of the plot.
The last few pages are like the first pages, being pretty vague and hard to understand of what it is trying to say. I like the way this book is like how it starts and how it ends the same way. It was kind of surprising that Nick broke up with Jordan and how suddenly that Jordan just gets engaged to another guy. It also makes sense for Nick to go back to the Midwest because all his friends are basically gone and they are not in touch with him anymore.
ReplyDeleteThe way Nick compares Gatsby himself to the U.S. impressed me. Throughout the story, Gatsby chased his unreachable dream of being with Daisy and returning to the past, just like the American dream and the pursuit of happiness. Gatsby's fate serves as a reminder that one's past defines that person and is unchangeable.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Catherine and Ayesha. Nick, Tom, Daisy, and Jordan all come from respectable Western families, raised with opportunities at their door. They went East and suffered for their experiences, but they all moved on in the end because they still had their lives. Gatsby, also from the West, pulled himself into the "new money" position, and all it got him was death. What they all have in common is that the East mutated them so that they were unlike the people they were meant to be in the West, and it left them worse off, and the only thing that could save them from the East was their class. For Gatsby then, the class he was born to wasn't high enough to keep him alive.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the acceptance of Tom when Nick shakes his hands at the end of the chapter sort of signifies whether Flitzgerald is saying that one should forgive the other or something on the lines of that. I am also curious to wonder what the word that Nick scratched out at Gatsby house means. In the Scarlett Letter I think we could sort of figure out whats going on there but in this situation I dont think there is any definately answer or even definate meaning?
ReplyDeleteAndrew C
My feelings towards Gatsby's death changed after reading the last chapter. In Chapter 8, I felt like Gatsby in some ways deserved death and brought it upon himself because of his materialism, obsession with Daisy, etc. However, after reading Chapter 9, I felt sympathetic for him when no one besides Nick and Gatsby's dad attend his funeral. His friends were never true friends. They were only interested in his wealth.
ReplyDeleteI thought the ending was so sad, especially how almost no one showed up at Gatsby's funeral. I also was a bit surprised by how Nick ended his relationship with Jordan.
ReplyDeleteEven though Gatsby had a 'shady' past with all those stories and such, I can't help but feel bad for him and how it doesn't seem that anyone (except a few people) missed him after he died.
I thought that the author reveiled a lot more about Nick's input on the whole situation with the final chapter. I believe that it added to the tragedy taking place when Nick talks to Tom. Nick's thoughts about Tom and Gatsby become very clear. He sees Tom as selphish. I believe now that Nick felt sorry for Gatsby and upset with Tom and Daisy.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the last chapter really made me pity Gatsby and it made me upset. The fact that practically no one showed up to his funeral was very sad, and made me feel sorry for Gatsby and think that he deserved better. I was also upset that Daisy wound up with Tom in the end, because although she was never going to wind up with Gatsby, I thought that she would at least leave Tom, who, in my mind, was a horrible wretched character. I also found it interesting how the west v. east theme came up in this chapter. I had never really thought about how the east had changed the characters lives for the worse before this chapter, but now I think that the east was the reason that the book was a tragic tale instead of a romantic novel (between Daisy and Gatsby).
ReplyDelete-Sydney
Though Gatsby's death and funeral were quite painful, sad, and lonely events, I still feel like Gatsby's death was overall liberating for Nick, making Gatsby even more of a tragic hero. Nick, an honest, friendly, and hard-working individual had managed to get caught up in the lives and relationships of others --Tom, Daisy, Gatsby and Jordan, where his own needs and interests were generally ignored. Throughout the time he spent with this group, he often had feelings of frustration or even distaste with their obsessions with money and their exclusive lifestyles. Yet Nick was never able to admit to himself that he was not interested in spending his life with this group until after Gatsby's death, when he was able to conclude how self-centered and insensitive Tom and Daisy are. Gatsby's death allowed Nick to plan to move back to the midwest, where he knows he will be much happier. Finally, Nick knows that he can leave because Gatsby no longer needs him; after the car accident and losing Daisy to Tom, Gatsby had nothing else left to live for. If he had not been killed, I feel like he would have relied on Nick for emotional support and for friendship. However, with Gatsby out of the picture, Nick is free to live his own life without worrying about focusing all of his energy on friends and neighbors, especially those he is not too fond of.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Gatsby's death led to a more positive future perhaps supports the idea that Gatsby is a tragic hero. His own death ended up being somewhat beneficial for Nick.
Nevertheless, I still feel incredibly bad for Gatsby, especially while reading about his funeral. I felt so angry at every single person who had rejected the invitation to the funeral. Poor Gatsby...
I don't like how Nick thinks he is so much better than Daisy and Tom. Sure they're much wealthier but if we weren't told that Nick was from the West and Tom and Daisy were from the East than I don't think we would ever pick up on the East-West divide. Even Gatsby's outsiderness only really came about after we learned of his desperate love of Daisy and his lonely funeral. Overall, I think many of the central themes talked about in this book are actually quite subtle and I wonder what that means.
ReplyDeleteThe way Nick feels about Gatsby in the end of the book I thought was very different to the way he felt about him at the start of the book. The way he described Gatsby in the start made it seem like Nick didn't like Gatsby but they became close friends in the end...Why this difference? -Amina
ReplyDeleteI thought the end of the novel paralleled the first two pages of the book in terms of language and Nick's attitude. It was a logical conclusion and allowed Fitzgerald to wrap up the book.
ReplyDelete-Benny
I believed this kind of summarizes the whole book, Gastby died, Wilson died, Tom moved on, now it ends with Nick moving on, it was really that last sentence in the book that summarizes everything together talking about the past.
ReplyDeleteI felt satisfied with the ending. Although it almost randomly started talking about the West and the East, it tied everyone together. I was left being mad at Daisy and Tom, but sympathetic for Gatsby. However, I wouldn't have felt as sorry if he hadn't died. The fact that almost nobody went to his funeral made me feel even more pity.
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